BG5150 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Participant turned 70 1/2 this year and died in late November. His RBD is 4/1/19. Spouse wants to roll over the entireaccount now. I believe the RMD must be taken first. Others in my office are sticking to the RBD of 4/1 and she can roll out the entire amount. Who is correct? Cites? QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPA Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESOP Guy Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I have always understood the answer to be the RMD has to be paid this year if the beneficiary is being paid this year. I believe if you read very carefully the plan document it will get you to that point as the document simply repeats the law on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Poje Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 the ERISA Outline Book has Chapter 6 Section VII Part A 3.a. Different rule for participants who die before RBD . If a participant dies before the RBD , the first distribution calendar year is generally the calendar year that immediately follows the year of the participant's death, unless a five-year rule is used to satisfy the minimum distribution obligation. For more details on death before the RBD, see Part F of this section. you could look at 1.401(a)(9)-3 Which has the title Death before required beginning date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG5150 Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 So, no 2018 RMD it seems. QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPA Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Starr Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 6 hours ago, BG5150 said: Participant turned 70 1/2 this year and died in late November. His RBD is 4/1/19. Spouse wants to roll over the entireaccount now. I believe the RMD must be taken first. Others in my office are sticking to the RBD of 4/1 and she can roll out the entire amount. Who is correct? Cites? Natalie says (and Natalie is ALWAYS right!) NO RMD (and you have all the cites!). See last paragraph for summary. Lawrence C. Starr, FLMI, CLU, CEBS, CPC, ChFC, EA, ATA, QPFCPresidentQualified Plan Consultants, Inc.46 Daggett DriveWest Springfield, MA 01089413-736-2066larrystarr@qpc-inc.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleby Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 1:38 PM, BG5150 said: So, no 2018 RMD it seems. No RMD, because death occurred before the RBD. Life and Death Planning for Retirement Benefits by Natalie B. Choate https://www.ataxplan.com/life-and-death-planning-for-retirement-benefits/ www.DeniseAppleby.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleby Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 4:53 PM, Larry Starr said: Natalie says (and Natalie is ALWAYS right!) NO RMD (and you have all the cites!). See last paragraph for summary. Agree. And agree about Natalie. Life and Death Planning for Retirement Benefits by Natalie B. Choate https://www.ataxplan.com/life-and-death-planning-for-retirement-benefits/ www.DeniseAppleby.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsample Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Would the answer remain the same if a 401(k) plan terminated rather than if the participant died? 401(k) plan terminated 11/1/2018. The first RMD for a participant was 4/1/2019. She requested a rollover of her entire balance into an IRA before 12/31/2018. My research in this scenario had me believe that the RMD had to come out prior to rollover into IRA, even though her first date, if the plan was still in existance, was 4/1/2019. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Preston Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 You are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Starr Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 34 minutes ago, Mike Preston said: You are correct. Yes indeed; it is a completely different scenario with a completely different result. Lawrence C. Starr, FLMI, CLU, CEBS, CPC, ChFC, EA, ATA, QPFCPresidentQualified Plan Consultants, Inc.46 Daggett DriveWest Springfield, MA 01089413-736-2066larrystarr@qpc-inc.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsample Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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