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BenefitsLink ® Message Boards Digest

January 19, 2024

Here are the most recently added topics on the BenefitsLink ® Message Boards

kcarter430 created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Received SSA Report of Balance Held in Terminated 401(k) Plan

"I received a 'Potential Private Retirement Benefit Information' letter from the SSA. My ex-employer, was bought out and the plan was terminated back in 2010. I never received a distribution or notification. I contacted the company listed on form 5500, they administered the plan after the buy out. They told me they have no idea what happened to any funds not distributed from the plan. Do I have any recourse with this matter?"

Dougsbpc created a topic in Defined Benefit Plans, Including Cash Balance

415 Limit Service

"A small corporation (just a business owner) started a business 5 years ago. Worked very hard all of those years and now the company is profitable enough to sponsor a defined benefit plan. In 2023 his W-2 salary was $300,000. In all previous years of the company he did not take a salary. As it turns out, 2023 was the first year that revenue exceeded expenses. He is currently age 71. According to the business owner, he has always worked more than 1,000 hours and in years 1-4 he believes he worked more than 3,000 hours per year. My question is with the 415 limit calculation. Our understanding is that for 415 purposes, his 415 limit is the lesser of the following:

  1. The dollar limit: $265,000 / 12 months = $22,083.33 X 1 /10 = $2,208.33 but in this case increased to $4,866.13 because of age 76 retirement.
  2. Service limit: $330,000 /12 months = $27,500.00 X 10% per year of service. $27,500 X 10% X 5 years of service = $13,750.

So his first year accrued benefit will be limited to $4,866.13. My question is this: even though he did not draw salary for years 1-4, are we able to count those years in our service part of the calculation (#2 above)?"

kpension created a topic in Form 5500

2023 Form 5500-EZ Fill-In Version Not Yet Available

"Does anyone know when the IRS will have the fill-in version of the 2023 Form 5500-EZ posted to their website? The information I found stated after January 1, 2024. I have been checking the website daily since in previous years they were available within a week after the new year. I can see from the informational version that a question was added , which is likely the cause of the delay. However, it would be helpful to know when the fill-in version is expected to be posted."

JH created a topic in Qualified Domestic Relations Orders (QDROs)

Change in Plan Administrator; Change in the QDRO Process?

"Plan administrator switched in the middle of the QDRO process with my old employer. HR at my old company says new plan administrator wants everything re-done. Do I need re-do QDRO, get court submission / approval done again, and then resubmit to HR? My retirement assets were basically frozen when I submitted it, but HR says it has to be redone: new plan administrator wouldn't process it due to gains losses unknown because it was with old plans administrator, said QDRO needs redone and plan name changed to new plan administrator since it was converted."

Jakyasar created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Sole Prop - Retro 401(k) Set Up

"A sole prop can now set up a 401k plan retro to 2023 and make a deferral, correct? No employees and must be set up prior to 4/15/24 (no extension allowed) SECURE 2.0 -- effective date was for plan years beginning after 12/29/2022 Am I wrong?"

FormsRstillmylife created a topic in 401(k) Plans

After-Tax In-Plan Rollover to Roth

"A plan with Roth can have an in-plan rollover to the Roth account. Notice 2014-54 says an after-tax account can have its after-tax employee contributions sent to a Roth IRA and its pre-tax investment return sent to a traditional IRA. Participant does not want to pay income tax on his after-tax account in-plan rollover.

  • Can a participant send after-tax employee contributions to the Plan's Roth Account and leave the investment return in the After-Tax Account under the plan?
  • Is Notice 2014-54 insufficient relief such that the investment return has to be sent to a traditional IRA, instead of being left in the Plan? With the traditional IRA being rolled back into the Plan as a third step.
  • Could the investment return just be rolled to the Plan's own rollover account (assuming all rights are preserved) in order to skip the IRA two-step dance?

Assume an individually designed plan that can be drafted/amended in any legal manner for a qualified plan."

Panda created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Change Profit Sharing Formula Mid-Year?

"The current plan profit sharing is 8% to eligible employees. There is no age, no service required, and no last-day service requirements for the profit-sharing contribution, and the contribution is being funded per payroll. There are 1000 hours for vesting. Now, the client would like to change the formula to lower it based on age. If age 45 or less: 4% Age 46-59: 6%, Age 60 and above: 8%. They like to make it effective mid-year. From my understanding is the formula was already set for the plan year 2024, the client cannot change it anymore. I understand they can amend the plan to have it effective 01/01/2025. My question: Is it possible to change the PS formula mid-year 2024 in this case? if yes, what are the consequences that we need to know?"

Jakyasar created a topic in Defined Benefit Plans, Including Cash Balance

2024 417e @ 5.5% Vs 2023 417e @5.5%

"Finally got my system updated and confirmed my suspicions but want to ask out there as well. Looks like at 65, the APR is lower for 2024 then 2023 and for someone at age 65 with full 415 limit, the 415 lumpsum dropped by approximately 33.9k, ouch All agree?"

Dave N created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Auto Enrollment Cessation

"Is anyone familiar with any guidance dictating the proper handling of automatically enrolled participants who never made a subsequent affirmative election when the plan is amended to cease auto enrollment (assuming the plan document is silent)? My inclination is to leave their current deferral rate as is, but I’m also aware of a school of thought that says their deferrals must stop unless/until an affirmative election is made."

PS created a topic in Plan Terminations

Employee Contribution to Be Included at Plan Termination

"Plan is terminating due to Stock sale and the sale date is 01/31/2024 and the termination date is 01/30/2024. The pay period is until 01/31/2024, the Plan sponsor will deduct the employee contribution on 01/29/2024 which will include the 01/31/2024 contribution, can the contribution for 01/31 be included though they are deducting the contribution before the termination date? the reason I ask is 01/31 is the sale date as well and since its a stock sale I believe they should be deducting only up to the termination date which 01/30/2024."

EBECatty created a topic in Defined Benefit Plans, Including Cash Balance

Lump Sum and 417(e)

"Please forgive the very basic question, but in the case of a DB plan lump sum window, does the lump sum payment need to be the greater of the plan's actuarial equivalence factors and the 417(e) factors? If so, does this hold true in all circumstances and for all participants (i.e., after NRA, ER eligible, not ER eligible, etc.)? Thanks in advance."

Basically created a topic in Distributions and Loans, Other than QDROs

Distribution of Rollover Contributions

"I think this might be a no brainer. But then there are so many nit-picky rules. A potential new client is asking questions. Within the email I received there is a bullet item "Rollover funds entirely". I asked for clarity, wanted to know what the intention was. I know they can't just dig into their plan balance and roll out employer contributions whenever they want. That said, if they rolled money into the plan into a designated rollover account from an IRA or a balance they had as a participant in another qualified plan, can they take a distribution from those plan accounts at any time? Thanks"

Tom created a topic in Form 5500

Form 5500 Line 12

"Just to be 100% on this so 5500s are not rejected. I know our plan letter serial number. I assume the date of the letter is as below 6/30/2020, NOT the date of submission which was in 2018."

Belgarath created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

2024 Relius Plan Termination Amendment

"Has anyone talked to Relius about when the 2024 specimen plan termination amendment is going to be available? I've just spent a very frustrating 1/2 hour trying to navigate their "ticket" system and telephone support when I couldn't get the ticket system to work. And the telephone option didn't work either."

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